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Read/Book VI/6.18
MED. 6.18Discipline of desire
George Long · 1862EN · Long

How strangely men act. They will not praise those who are living at the same time and living with themselves; but to be themselves praised by posterity, by those whom they have never seen or ever will see, this they set much value on. But this is very much the same as if thou shouldst be TERMgrieved because those who have lived before thee did not praise thee.

Original · ancient Greek

Οἷόν ἐστιν ὃ ποιοῦσι. τοὺς μὲν ἐπὶ τοῦ αὐτοῦ χρόνου καὶ μεθ’ ἑαυτῶν ζῶντας ἀνθρώπους εὐφημεῖν οὐ θέλουσιν, αὐτοὶ δὲ ὑπὸ τῶν μεταγενεστέρων εὐφημηθῆναι, οὓς οὔτε εἶδόν ποτε οὔτε ὄψονται, περὶ πολλοῦ ποιοῦνται. τοῦτο δὲ ἐγγύς ἐστι τῷ λυπηθῆναι ἄν, ὅτι οὐχὶ καὶ οἱ προγενέστεροι περὶ σοῦ λόγους εὐφήμους ἐποιοῦντο.

Leopold · Teubner 1908
Commentary

Genre and place in the book. A terse reductio against the vanity of posthumous fame (ὑστεροφημία). The principal discipline is desire (fame is worthless, not to be sought); the sustaining one is assent (laying bare the absurdity through the symmetry of the times). Kin to 06-16 (the crowd's praise — a "clapping of tongues").

DOGMAThe absurdity of posthumous fame. People will not praise the contemporaries living beside them — yet they set great store on the praise of a posterity "whom they have never seen and never will." Marcus exposes the absurdity through the symmetry of past and future: to crave praise from those who will come after is nearly the same as to grieve that those who lived before you did not praise you. If the latter is plainly absurd (who would mourn the silence of his ancestors?), so is the former: future and past "praisers" alike are out of reach and alike add nothing.

Envy and grief (λύπη). Both movements belong to the family of TERMλύπη (the "irrational contraction" of the soul). The unwillingness to praise a contemporary is φθόνος (envy, a species of λύπη: distress at another's "undeserved" good); the longing for a praise that never comes is λύπη outright. The therapy is one: to see that praise lies outside good and evil — and then both the envy and the grief dissolve.

Disciplines and parallels. The principal one is desire (not to value fame); the secondary is assent (the reductio that exposes the false valuation). Parallels: 06-16 (the crowd's praise — κρότος γλωσσῶν, worthless); posthumous fame as oblivion — Med. 4.19; 4.33; 8.44; cf. TERMλύπη and its species φθόνος; the theme of fame — δόξα / ὑστεροφημία.

DisciplineDiscipline of desire
Record added2026-07-16
Statuspublished
Read·Book VI
Discipline of desire

George Long · 1862· EN · Long

How strangely men act. They will not praise those who are living at the same time and living with themselves; but to be themselves praised by posterity, by those whom they have never seen or ever will see, this they set much value on. But this is very much the same as if thou shouldst be TERMgrieved because those who have lived before thee did not praise thee.

Original · ancient Greek

Οἷόν ἐστιν ὃ ποιοῦσι. τοὺς μὲν ἐπὶ τοῦ αὐτοῦ χρόνου καὶ μεθ’ ἑαυτῶν ζῶντας ἀνθρώπους εὐφημεῖν οὐ θέλουσιν, αὐτοὶ δὲ ὑπὸ τῶν μεταγενεστέρων εὐφημηθῆναι, οὓς οὔτε εἶδόν ποτε οὔτε ὄψονται, περὶ πολλοῦ ποιοῦνται. τοῦτο δὲ ἐγγύς ἐστι τῷ λυπηθῆναι ἄν, ὅτι οὐχὶ καὶ οἱ προγενέστεροι περὶ σοῦ λόγους εὐφήμους ἐποιοῦντο.

Leopold · Teubner 1908
Related2
TERMλύπηdistress, grief, pain of soulDOGMAFame is empty — neither praise nor posthumous remembrance is a good
Commentary

Genre and place in the book. A terse reductio against the vanity of posthumous fame (ὑστεροφημία). The principal discipline is desire (fame is worthless, not to be sought); the sustaining one is assent (laying bare the absurdity through the symmetry of the times). Kin to 06-16 (the crowd's praise — a "clapping of tongues").

DOGMAThe absurdity of posthumous fame. People will not praise the contemporaries living beside them — yet they set great store on the praise of a posterity "whom they have never seen and never will." Marcus exposes the absurdity through the symmetry of past and future: to crave praise from those who will come after is nearly the same as to grieve that those who lived before you did not praise you. If the latter is plainly absurd (who would mourn the silence of his ancestors?), so is the former: future and past "praisers" alike are out of reach and alike add nothing.

Envy and grief (λύπη). Both movements belong to the family of TERMλύπη (the "irrational contraction" of the soul). The unwillingness to praise a contemporary is φθόνος (envy, a species of λύπη: distress at another's "undeserved" good); the longing for a praise that never comes is λύπη outright. The therapy is one: to see that praise lies outside good and evil — and then both the envy and the grief dissolve.

Disciplines and parallels. The principal one is desire (not to value fame); the secondary is assent (the reductio that exposes the false valuation). Parallels: 06-16 (the crowd's praise — κρότος γλωσσῶν, worthless); posthumous fame as oblivion — Med. 4.19; 4.33; 8.44; cf. TERMλύπη and its species φθόνος; the theme of fame — δόξα / ὑστεροφημία.

DisciplineDiscipline of desire
Record added2026-07-16
Statuspublished