MED. 5.12Discipline of desire
George Long · 1862EN · Long

How TERMthe things which seem good to most men might be shown to be otherwise, a man may learn from this. If a man should conceive certain things as being DOGMAreally good, such as TERMprudence, TERMtemperance, TERMjustice, TERMfortitude, he would not after having first conceived these endure to listen to anything which should not be in harmony with what is really good. But if a man has first conceived as good the things which appear to the many to be good, he will listen and readily receive as very applicable that which was said by the comic writer. Thus even the many perceive the difference. For were it not so, this saying would not offend and would not be rejected, while we receive it as fitly and wittily said of wealth, and of the things which further luxury and fame. Go on then and ask if we should value and TERMthink those things to be good, to which after their first conception in the mind the words of the comic writer might be aptly applied — that he who is furnished with them has not a place, by reason of his abundance, to ease himself in.

Original · ancient Greek

Ὁποῖά τινά ἐστι τὰ τοῖς πολλοῖς δοκοῦντα ἀγαθά, κἂν ἐντεῦθεν λάβοις. εἰ γάρ τις ἐπινοήσειεν ὑπάρχοντά τινα ὡς ἀληθῶς ἀγαθά, οἷον φρόνησιν, σωφροσύνην, δικαιοσύνην, ἀνδρείαν, οὐκ ἂν ταῦτα προεπινοήσας ἐπακοῦσαι δυνηθείη τό· ʽὑπὸ τῶν ἀγαθῶνʼ, οὐ γὰρ ἐφαρμόσει. τὰ δέ γε τοῖς πολλοῖς φαινόμενα ἀγαθὰ προεπινοήσας τις ἐπακούσεται καὶ ῥᾳδίως δέξεται ὡς οἰκείως ἐπιλεγόμενον τὸ ὑπὸ τοῦ κωμικοῦ εἰρημένον. οὕτως καὶ οἱ πολλοὶ φαντάζονται τὴν διαφοράν· οὐ γὰρ ἂν τοῦτο μὲν οὐ προσέκοπτε καὶ ἀπηξιοῦτο, τὸ δὲ ἐπὶ τοῦ πλούτου καὶ τῶν πρὸς τρυφὴν ἢ δόξαν εὐκληρημάτων παρεδεχόμεθα ὡς ἱκνουμένως καὶ ἀστείως εἰρημένον. πρόιθι οὖν καὶ ἐρώτα, εἰ τιμητέον καὶ ἀγαθὰ ὑποληπτέον τὰ τοιαῦτα, ὧν προεπινοηθέντων οἰκείως ἂν ἐπιφέροιτο τὸ τὸν κεκτημένον αὐτὰ ὑπὸ τῆς εὐπορίας ʽοὐκ ἔχειν ὅποι χέσῃʼ.

Leopold · Teubner 1908
Commentary

Place in the book. On the true good (virtue) against apparent goods (externals) — with an unexpected instrument: a crude comic line. The disciplines are desire (what the good is) and assent (the evaluative judgment, ὑπόληψις).

A test for the real good. Conceive "what is truly good" (DOGMAὡς ἀληθῶς ἀγαθά) — the four cardinal virtues: TERMφρόνησις (prudence), TERMσωφροσύνη (temperance), TERMδικαιοσύνη (justice), TERMἀνδρεία (courage) — and the comic tag «ὑπὸ τῶν ἀγαθῶν» ("thanks to his goods…") will not stick to them: it does not fit. But conceive TERMthe "goods" of the many, and the same line lies snugly.

The comic line as a criterion. The comic tag — «οὐκ ἔχειν ὅποι χέσῃ» ("so rich he has nowhere to relieve himself") — is deliberately crude; Marcus quotes it unsoftened. Its aptness for wealth and fame, and its sheer absurdity for the virtues, is the proof: even the many secretly "represent" (φαντάζονται) the difference. The jest offends applied to virtue and delights applied to money — so the very laughers have already passed an TERMevaluative judgment (ὑπόληψις): externals are not goods.

The argument from consent. Marcus turns vulgar comedy into a philosophical criterion: the language and laughter of "the many" betray their latent value-theory. One who "honours and reckons as good" (τιμητέον καὶ ἀγαθὰ ὑποληπτέον) wealth would fittingly apply the latrine-joke to his idol — and not wince.

Value theory. The real good is virtue (DOGMAonly the noble is good); wealth, luxury, fame are not goods but indifferents. Cf. 03-06: if you find anything better than justice, truth, temperance, courage — turn to it; but nothing is better.

Discipline and parallels. The principal discipline is desire (the revision of what to value as good); the secondary is assent (the ὑπόληψις of the good). Parallel: Med. 3.6 (03-06) — the rejection of power, wealth, and pleasure as goods.

DisciplineDiscipline of desire
Record added2026-07-11
Statuspublished
Discipline of desire

George Long · 1862· EN · Long

How TERMthe things which seem good to most men might be shown to be otherwise, a man may learn from this. If a man should conceive certain things as being DOGMAreally good, such as TERMprudence, TERMtemperance, TERMjustice, TERMfortitude, he would not after having first conceived these endure to listen to anything which should not be in harmony with what is really good. But if a man has first conceived as good the things which appear to the many to be good, he will listen and readily receive as very applicable that which was said by the comic writer. Thus even the many perceive the difference. For were it not so, this saying would not offend and would not be rejected, while we receive it as fitly and wittily said of wealth, and of the things which further luxury and fame. Go on then and ask if we should value and TERMthink those things to be good, to which after their first conception in the mind the words of the comic writer might be aptly applied — that he who is furnished with them has not a place, by reason of his abundance, to ease himself in.

Original · ancient Greek

Ὁποῖά τινά ἐστι τὰ τοῖς πολλοῖς δοκοῦντα ἀγαθά, κἂν ἐντεῦθεν λάβοις. εἰ γάρ τις ἐπινοήσειεν ὑπάρχοντά τινα ὡς ἀληθῶς ἀγαθά, οἷον φρόνησιν, σωφροσύνην, δικαιοσύνην, ἀνδρείαν, οὐκ ἂν ταῦτα προεπινοήσας ἐπακοῦσαι δυνηθείη τό· ʽὑπὸ τῶν ἀγαθῶνʼ, οὐ γὰρ ἐφαρμόσει. τὰ δέ γε τοῖς πολλοῖς φαινόμενα ἀγαθὰ προεπινοήσας τις ἐπακούσεται καὶ ῥᾳδίως δέξεται ὡς οἰκείως ἐπιλεγόμενον τὸ ὑπὸ τοῦ κωμικοῦ εἰρημένον. οὕτως καὶ οἱ πολλοὶ φαντάζονται τὴν διαφοράν· οὐ γὰρ ἂν τοῦτο μὲν οὐ προσέκοπτε καὶ ἀπηξιοῦτο, τὸ δὲ ἐπὶ τοῦ πλούτου καὶ τῶν πρὸς τρυφὴν ἢ δόξαν εὐκληρημάτων παρεδεχόμεθα ὡς ἱκνουμένως καὶ ἀστείως εἰρημένον. πρόιθι οὖν καὶ ἐρώτα, εἰ τιμητέον καὶ ἀγαθὰ ὑποληπτέον τὰ τοιαῦτα, ὧν προεπινοηθέντων οἰκείως ἂν ἐπιφέροιτο τὸ τὸν κεκτημένον αὐτὰ ὑπὸ τῆς εὐπορίας ʽοὐκ ἔχειν ὅποι χέσῃʼ.

Leopold · Teubner 1908
Related7
Commentary

Place in the book. On the true good (virtue) against apparent goods (externals) — with an unexpected instrument: a crude comic line. The disciplines are desire (what the good is) and assent (the evaluative judgment, ὑπόληψις).

A test for the real good. Conceive "what is truly good" (DOGMAὡς ἀληθῶς ἀγαθά) — the four cardinal virtues: TERMφρόνησις (prudence), TERMσωφροσύνη (temperance), TERMδικαιοσύνη (justice), TERMἀνδρεία (courage) — and the comic tag «ὑπὸ τῶν ἀγαθῶν» ("thanks to his goods…") will not stick to them: it does not fit. But conceive TERMthe "goods" of the many, and the same line lies snugly.

The comic line as a criterion. The comic tag — «οὐκ ἔχειν ὅποι χέσῃ» ("so rich he has nowhere to relieve himself") — is deliberately crude; Marcus quotes it unsoftened. Its aptness for wealth and fame, and its sheer absurdity for the virtues, is the proof: even the many secretly "represent" (φαντάζονται) the difference. The jest offends applied to virtue and delights applied to money — so the very laughers have already passed an TERMevaluative judgment (ὑπόληψις): externals are not goods.

The argument from consent. Marcus turns vulgar comedy into a philosophical criterion: the language and laughter of "the many" betray their latent value-theory. One who "honours and reckons as good" (τιμητέον καὶ ἀγαθὰ ὑποληπτέον) wealth would fittingly apply the latrine-joke to his idol — and not wince.

Value theory. The real good is virtue (DOGMAonly the noble is good); wealth, luxury, fame are not goods but indifferents. Cf. 03-06: if you find anything better than justice, truth, temperance, courage — turn to it; but nothing is better.

Discipline and parallels. The principal discipline is desire (the revision of what to value as good); the secondary is assent (the ὑπόληψις of the good). Parallel: Med. 3.6 (03-06) — the rejection of power, wealth, and pleasure as goods.

DisciplineDiscipline of desire
Record added2026-07-11
Statuspublished