MED. 9.40Discipline of desire
George Long · 1862EN · Long

Either the gods have no power or they have power. If, then, they have no power, why dost thou pray to them? But if they have power, why dost thou not pray for them to give thee the faculty of not fearing any of the things which thou fearest, or of not TERMdesiring any of the things which thou desirest, or not TERMbeing pained at anything, rather than pray that any of these things should not happen or happen? for certainly if they can TERMco-operate with men, they can co-operate for these purposes. But perhaps thou wilt say, the gods have placed them in thy power. Well, then, is it not better to DOGMAuse what is in thy power like a free man than to desire in a slavish and abject way what is not in thy power? And who has told thee that the gods do not aid us even in DOGMAthe things which are in our power? Begin, then, to pray for such things, and thou wilt see. One man prays thus: How shall I be able to lie with that woman? Do thou pray thus: How shall I not TERMdesire to lie with her? Another prays thus: How shall I be released from this? Another prays: How shall I not desire to be released? Another thus: How shall I not lose my little son? Thou thus: How shall I not be afraid to lose him? In fine, turn thy prayers this way, and see what comes.

Original · ancient Greek

Ἤτοι οὐδὲν δύνανται οἱ θεοὶ ἢ δύνανται. εἰ μὲν οὖν μὴ δύνανται, τί εὔχῃ; εἰ δὲ δύνανται, διὰ τί οὐχὶ μᾶλλον εὔχῃ διδόναι αὐτοὺς τὸ μήτε φοβεῖσθαί τι τούτων μήτε ἐπιθυμεῖν τινος τούτων μήτε λυπεῖσθαι ἐπί τινι τούτων, μᾶλλον ἤπερ τὸ μὴ παρεῖναί τι τούτων ἢ τὸ παρεῖναι; πάντως γάρ, εἰ δύνανται συνεργεῖν ἀνθρώποις, καὶ εἰς ταῦτα δύνανται συνεργεῖν. ἀλλὰ ἴσως ἐρεῖς ὅτι· ἐπ’ ἐμοὶ αὐτὰ οἱ θεοὶ ἐποίησαν. εἶτα οὐ κρεῖσσον χρῆσθαι τοῖς ἐπὶ σοὶ μετ̓ ἐλευθερίας ἢ διαφέρεσθαι πρὸς τὰ μὴ ἐπὶ σοὶ μετὰ δουλείας καὶ ταπεινότητος; τίς δέ σοι εἶπεν ὅτι οὐχὶ καὶ εἰς τὰ ἐφ̓ ἡμῖν οἱ θεοὶ συλλαμβάνουσιν; ἄρξαι γοῦν περὶ τούτων εὔχεσθαι καὶ ὄψει. οὗτος εὔχεται· πῶς κοιμηθῶ μετ̓ ἐκείνης· σύ· πῶς μὴ ἐπιθυμήσω τοῦ κοιμηθῆναι μετ’ ἐκείνης. ἄλλος· πῶς στερηθῶ ἐκείνου· σύ· πῶς μὴ χρῄζω τοῦ στερηθῆναι. ἄλλος· πῶς μὴ ἀποβάλω τὸ τεκνίον· σύ· πῶς μὴ φοβηθῶ ἀποβαλεῖν. ὅλως ὧδε ἐπίστρεψον τὰς εὐχὰς καὶ θεώρει τί γίνεται.

Leopold · Teubner 1908
Commentary

The dilemma as a lever. The passage opens with a bare disjunction — the same form as "providence or atoms" at 9.39: either the gods have no power or they have. The first branch cancels prayer altogether ("if they cannot, why do you pray?"); the second does not abolish it but redirects it. The move is deliberately non-theological: Marcus neither proves that gods exist nor argues against prayer as such — he asks what to ask for, if asking makes sense at all.

The reform of prayer. Instead of "let this be / let this not be" — "let me not fear, TERMdesire, or TERMgrieve over this." The list is not casual: fear, desire and grief are three of the four cardinal passions, and all three attach to indifferents. The argument runs from capacity: if the gods can TERMco-operate (συνεργεῖν) with men at all, they can co-operate here too. The objection "but the gods put these in my own power" is not rejected but turned around: so much the better — DOGMAuse what is yours "with freedom" (μετ’ ἐλευθερίας) rather than wrangle over what is not yours "with servility and abjectness" (μετὰ δουλείας καὶ ταπεινότητος). And at once the door is left open: "who told you that the gods do not lend a hand (συλλαμβάνουσιν) even in DOGMAwhat is up to us (τὰ ἐφ’ ἡμῖν)?"

Three pairs. The close is a drill — three parallel pairs of "he prays / you pray": to possess that woman → not to desire her; to be rid of that man → not to need to be rid of him; not to lose the child → not to fear its loss. In each pair the object of the request shifts from an external event to one's own disposition, the only thing genuinely DOGMAup to us. Hence the closing ἐπίστρεψον ("turn round" your prayers) and θεώρει τί γίνεται — not "believe" but "try it and watch": a test by experience, not by doctrine. Cf. 5.7 (the Athenian prayer for rain) and 6.23 ("in all things call on the gods"). The governing discipline is desire.

A note on Long's version. In the second pair Long prints "Another prays: How shall I not desire to be released?", where the Greek has σύ ("you") — the line belongs not to a third petitioner but to the practitioner himself, and Rogovin renders it correctly («Ты молись»). The modernization restores the Greek: "You: how may I not need to be rid of him." Long also gives "How shall I be released from this?" for ἐκείνου ("from that man") — a smoothing that does not alter the sense.

DisciplineDiscipline of desire
Record added2026-07-16
Statuspublished
Discipline of desire

George Long · 1862· EN · Long

Either the gods have no power or they have power. If, then, they have no power, why dost thou pray to them? But if they have power, why dost thou not pray for them to give thee the faculty of not fearing any of the things which thou fearest, or of not TERMdesiring any of the things which thou desirest, or not TERMbeing pained at anything, rather than pray that any of these things should not happen or happen? for certainly if they can TERMco-operate with men, they can co-operate for these purposes. But perhaps thou wilt say, the gods have placed them in thy power. Well, then, is it not better to DOGMAuse what is in thy power like a free man than to desire in a slavish and abject way what is not in thy power? And who has told thee that the gods do not aid us even in DOGMAthe things which are in our power? Begin, then, to pray for such things, and thou wilt see. One man prays thus: How shall I be able to lie with that woman? Do thou pray thus: How shall I not TERMdesire to lie with her? Another prays thus: How shall I be released from this? Another prays: How shall I not desire to be released? Another thus: How shall I not lose my little son? Thou thus: How shall I not be afraid to lose him? In fine, turn thy prayers this way, and see what comes.

Original · ancient Greek

Ἤτοι οὐδὲν δύνανται οἱ θεοὶ ἢ δύνανται. εἰ μὲν οὖν μὴ δύνανται, τί εὔχῃ; εἰ δὲ δύνανται, διὰ τί οὐχὶ μᾶλλον εὔχῃ διδόναι αὐτοὺς τὸ μήτε φοβεῖσθαί τι τούτων μήτε ἐπιθυμεῖν τινος τούτων μήτε λυπεῖσθαι ἐπί τινι τούτων, μᾶλλον ἤπερ τὸ μὴ παρεῖναί τι τούτων ἢ τὸ παρεῖναι; πάντως γάρ, εἰ δύνανται συνεργεῖν ἀνθρώποις, καὶ εἰς ταῦτα δύνανται συνεργεῖν. ἀλλὰ ἴσως ἐρεῖς ὅτι· ἐπ’ ἐμοὶ αὐτὰ οἱ θεοὶ ἐποίησαν. εἶτα οὐ κρεῖσσον χρῆσθαι τοῖς ἐπὶ σοὶ μετ̓ ἐλευθερίας ἢ διαφέρεσθαι πρὸς τὰ μὴ ἐπὶ σοὶ μετὰ δουλείας καὶ ταπεινότητος; τίς δέ σοι εἶπεν ὅτι οὐχὶ καὶ εἰς τὰ ἐφ̓ ἡμῖν οἱ θεοὶ συλλαμβάνουσιν; ἄρξαι γοῦν περὶ τούτων εὔχεσθαι καὶ ὄψει. οὗτος εὔχεται· πῶς κοιμηθῶ μετ̓ ἐκείνης· σύ· πῶς μὴ ἐπιθυμήσω τοῦ κοιμηθῆναι μετ’ ἐκείνης. ἄλλος· πῶς στερηθῶ ἐκείνου· σύ· πῶς μὴ χρῄζω τοῦ στερηθῆναι. ἄλλος· πῶς μὴ ἀποβάλω τὸ τεκνίον· σύ· πῶς μὴ φοβηθῶ ἀποβαλεῖν. ὅλως ὧδε ἐπίστρεψον τὰς εὐχὰς καὶ θεώρει τί γίνεται.

Leopold · Teubner 1908
Related5
Commentary

The dilemma as a lever. The passage opens with a bare disjunction — the same form as "providence or atoms" at 9.39: either the gods have no power or they have. The first branch cancels prayer altogether ("if they cannot, why do you pray?"); the second does not abolish it but redirects it. The move is deliberately non-theological: Marcus neither proves that gods exist nor argues against prayer as such — he asks what to ask for, if asking makes sense at all.

The reform of prayer. Instead of "let this be / let this not be" — "let me not fear, TERMdesire, or TERMgrieve over this." The list is not casual: fear, desire and grief are three of the four cardinal passions, and all three attach to indifferents. The argument runs from capacity: if the gods can TERMco-operate (συνεργεῖν) with men at all, they can co-operate here too. The objection "but the gods put these in my own power" is not rejected but turned around: so much the better — DOGMAuse what is yours "with freedom" (μετ’ ἐλευθερίας) rather than wrangle over what is not yours "with servility and abjectness" (μετὰ δουλείας καὶ ταπεινότητος). And at once the door is left open: "who told you that the gods do not lend a hand (συλλαμβάνουσιν) even in DOGMAwhat is up to us (τὰ ἐφ’ ἡμῖν)?"

Three pairs. The close is a drill — three parallel pairs of "he prays / you pray": to possess that woman → not to desire her; to be rid of that man → not to need to be rid of him; not to lose the child → not to fear its loss. In each pair the object of the request shifts from an external event to one's own disposition, the only thing genuinely DOGMAup to us. Hence the closing ἐπίστρεψον ("turn round" your prayers) and θεώρει τί γίνεται — not "believe" but "try it and watch": a test by experience, not by doctrine. Cf. 5.7 (the Athenian prayer for rain) and 6.23 ("in all things call on the gods"). The governing discipline is desire.

A note on Long's version. In the second pair Long prints "Another prays: How shall I not desire to be released?", where the Greek has σύ ("you") — the line belongs not to a third petitioner but to the practitioner himself, and Rogovin renders it correctly («Ты молись»). The modernization restores the Greek: "You: how may I not need to be rid of him." Long also gives "How shall I be released from this?" for ἐκείνου ("from that man") — a smoothing that does not alter the sense.

DisciplineDiscipline of desire
Record added2026-07-16
Statuspublished